Welsh Rugby Union (WRU) chair Richard Collier-Keywood says he was embarrassed by the 73-0 defeat against South Africa but wants to carry on his role.
Collier-Keywood was talking after the WRU annual general meeting (AGM) with member clubs on Sunday.
AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisementThat AGM was held less than 24 hours after the humiliating loss to the Springboks and you would have expected the WRU to come under major scrutiny from the clubs.
There was only one question posed on the professional game, asking why the match was organised outside World Rugby's international window.
There were no queries about the WRU's drastic plans for the professional game, which includes cutting one of its four men's sides.
There were no calls for an extraordinary general meeting (EGM) or the WRU chair and board to resign as we have seen in the past.
Collier-Keywood was later quizzed by the media about how long the WRU's plan will take to implement and how it will cut one of the four current professional men's sides, with the proposal to have three teams based in the west, east and Cardiff.
AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisementThe former UK government senior adviser to the Department for Digital, Culture, Media was also asked whether those three remaining teams will accept the WRU's insistence on taking more direct control of playing matters, with Dragons already saying they do not want those terms.
He also gave an answer on whether Wales will have to field a semi-professional Super Rygbi Cymru side in the United Rugby Championship (URC).
Here are the chair's full answers as the governing body attempts to make drastic changes in what promises to remain a turbulent time in Welsh rugby.
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WRU chair Collier-Keywood wants to stay in role
The roadmap for WRU change
Question: Are you close to implementing your plan for Welsh rugby?
Richard Collier-Keywood: "We are working hard to try to get consensus, that's the best way to do this.
AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisement"There are many issues with getting consensus. Four to three sides is but one of them.
"The others are the rugby operating model, the finances going forward and what we do in relation to the URC.
"Firstly, there is no point going to three teams if we don't change the rugby operating model.
"As a proud Welshman, when I was watching Wales against South Africa you just think we need better collaboration and corroboration.
"Had we had that over the last 10 years, we probably wouldn't be here today. That's the thing we are making sure we get right.
"The second is the financial side. You saw that with Cardiff, who ought to be the most successful financial club.
AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisement"It's in the capital and right next to the Principality Stadium but it went into administration [in April 2025] because its owners did not put in the money.
"We've got to make the clubs that go forward financially sustainable with support from the Union, but also appropriate support from owners, and they've got to be committed to that.
"Thirdly, we have said for various playing reasons we think three is the right number so we've got to get a resolution on that.
"The fourth [point] is we still have to satisfy our contractual commitments to the URC."
Q: Are you close to reducing the amount of Welsh professional clubs from four to three. Is one of the current sides taking over another the preferred solution for you?
RCK: "Going from four to three, the easiest way is to either get two clubs to combine or the second one is to get one of the other clubs to buy Cardiff off us.
AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisement"Those are two obvious routes."
Q: Are the Ospreys owners Y11 in for buying Cardiff?
RCK: "I don't want to comment on any specific ones we are in dialogue with for obvious reasons.
"We are in dialogue with a number of people on a number of different options.
"Commenting on any one particular one would give you a false impression on what's going on."
Q: What is the latest on prospective bids to buy Cardiff?
RCK: "The person receiving the bids was Gavin Marshall [WRU chief operating officer].
"I know first hand we've had four bids in from the ones I've seen but we may have had others."
The United Rugby Championship started in 2021 after previously being the Pro14 [Huw Evans Picture Agency]Q: If you go to three clubs, will you have to field a fourth team in the United Rugby Championship?
RCK: "We need to play four clubs in the URC at the moment. It is how we deal with the URC commitment to put four teams in that, so we are working on that in parallel.
AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisement"That will probably take a bit longer than a few weeks."
Q: Can you see the irony of having to find a fourth side when you are cutting a team that currently exists?
RCK: "That presupposes the answer is we are finding the fourth side.
"We might not have to. There are many other solutions we would prefer.
"We have engaged with the URC on this - 15 [teams] is a tough number for them in the league but 14 and 16 is acceptable is my understanding, although they'll have their own view on that.
"That means there might be one other country that says they want less or more teams.
AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisement"There are a number of potential entrants to URC who have been queuing up for a number of years.
"There's Georgia, Spain and there's also the United States because we want to take the Rugby World Cup there in a few years time, so we need to bring the US into that world rugby map.
"So, it might not fall on us. We have to have a fall-back solution because if it does fall on us, we have to be ready for what that might be."
Q: WRU director of rugby Dave Reddin mentioned you could be looking at a fourth side that is outside of Wales? If it does fall on you, could you also enter a Super Rygbi Cymru club into the URC?
RCK: "We are looking at all options and that is something that is on the table, just as retaining one of the existing ones is on the table."
AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisementQ: When does the URC contract end?
RCK: "It's a rolling contract so we are committed into the future for having four teams.
"We are also committed up to 2028 that none of our best teams can play in any other competition. Those are the two obligations.
"So, we have to find four, and up to 2028 none of our teams can play in a different professional competition."
More WRU influence on Welsh professional teams
Dragons have stated they do not want the WRU to control rugby matters [Huw Evans Picture Agency]Is WRU control over the playing and coaching aspects of the three sides a non-negotiable for you, or could you give way?
RCK: "I wouldn't call it control. That's probably overreaching what we are trying to do.
AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisement"We want them to be seen as individual clubs. We want the owners to have an input to the rugby side.
"But there are certain aspects of it we want, largely because we are paying for all the players and are offering to pay for the coaching and support staff.
"In those circumstances, we do want a strong involvement in what happens on the field in those clubs.
"I acknowledge we are building from a platform of little trust from the past, where the WRU and the clubs stood off each other a lot, and in terms of the disputes which went on.
"I have tried to build a platform whereby you get to know each other, do little things together, build a relationship where you build that trust and do big things together.
AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisement"Some of the things we are asking them to do now are big things, we recognise that.
"If our rugby strategy fails, it's legitimate the club's finances are impacted. I get that, but equally the status quo doesn't make sense for us."
The Wales team that faced South Africa was made up purely of players from the four professional teams. Is what happened a representation of what the regions can produce, and accentuate the argument for sides controlling their own destinies is not working?
RCK: "I think it did. I wouldn't put everything on one game. We made our decision as a board weeks ago and that was after looking at a lot of evidence over the last few years, also what can realistically be improved if you changed some structures and systems.
AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisement"Dave Reddin has outlined some of the things we plan to do which will make a difference.
"One is a single national academy that everyone takes part in, as opposed to having individual academies that don't have the overreaching national picture to them.
"That one small thing would be a huge step forward.
"The cohesion that comes from being able to mandate and get yourself into a position where the key playing partnerships play together in club rugby.
"That's significant to us. So these are some simple changes we could make with conversations with the owners."
A mandate for change?
Do you take what happened at the AGM as a mandate for your 'Project Reset' from the clubs?
RCK: "Yes, definitely. Everyone, myself included, wants to see Welsh rugby improve.
AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisement"It is deeply embedded in our DNA. That's what we want. There is a plan for that to happen.
"It would have been the easiest thing in the world to stick with four clubs.
"But we wouldn't have had the money to invest in pathways and other things we need to do to create the difference moving forward.
"Sticking with four clubs was the easiest for the board to make. They didn't make that decision, so credit to them.
"It's going to be tough and not everyone is happy with us. I can understand and sympathise with that.
"If I'd been a supporter of the one club that will go, I get why that's awful.
AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisement"But equally if you want Welsh rugby to move on and for us to be able to compete at the top level, we need to make those changes.
"That has been clear to us for probably months.
"It was laid bare to the nation on Saturday. That is the mountain we have to climb in terms of performance."
Q: Lots of people who don't have a vote are not happy with your proposals. It seems that everyone that does have a vote [the clubs] were not bothered?
RCK: "I don't think it's a case of 'aren't bothered'.
"We've had some interesting conversations with some of the community clubs who have a view on which way they want it to go.
AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisement"We did this consultation with 7,000 responses to it, so there is concern in the community about how it goes forward.
"But I take from the lack of questions, there is a mandate to make this change. That is clear.
"I'm pleased and relieved by that. We thought that was the case because we listened to the consultation, read everything, looked at it all and made a decision.
"It's pleasing that came through. They [clubs] are our shareholders and stakeholders.
"Over the last two years or so, we've made a huge effort to communicate better with those clubs.
"Leighton Davies, [WRU commercial officer] has gone around the district meetings at least twice each year to support that.
AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisement"I've done at least two webinars a year on the finances with all the clubs. A lot of that probably wasn't news to them.
"Many of them said to me it is now being run professionally and run well.
"That doesn't mean we don't care about Welsh rugby. We care and that's the reason we are doing this.
"To have it run well gives you the choices we need to make and to make those investments going forward."
